Industrial Nation Interview

In 1979, Robin Storey and Ben Ponton founded the anonymous collective known as :zoviet*france:. Their anti-rock star work ethic was hardcore. :zoviet*france: did everything possible to stay anonymous. They left their names off of the liner notes. They turned down offers to appear on compilations for years. They refused to be interviewed. They concentrated on creating landmark experimental albums: Mohnomishe. Shouting at the Ground. Shadow, Thief of the Sun. All classic, albums with Storey's fingerprints all over them.

Storey left the collective in 1991 after a gruelling American tour. He took all of :z*f:'s integrity with him. The handful of post-Storey :z*f: releases never rise above mediocrity. Meanwhile Robin Storey has made over 30 albums in ten years as Rapoon ... and none of them suck.

Storey is very open about his source material. He has created two different Loops for Acid instalments for Sonic Foundry, thus allowing the world to use, sample and steal vast amounts of Rapoon drones and percussion. In fact, his Cold War album contained a light version of Acid and sounds that allows anyone to remix parts of the album.

While Rapoon is mostly ambient, recent Rapoon albums are all over the map. Cold War was flavoured with drum and bass both hardcore and benign. He did a trance-based album with Kinder Atom, while cutting ambient albums with Victor Nubla and Black Faction. One of Rapoon's latest, Rhiz, is a straight-up trance album.

I talked to Robin on the phone in February 2003. He is currently going to school at age 48 to earn an MA in

Creative Music Technology. His voice is very soft-spoken and his North England accent is very strong.

IN: Have you finished your MA in Creative Music Technology?

R: No, no. I'm doing that part time over the next two years. I'm just in the second semester now. I've done a few workshops abroad. Some of the people I had met said that you could easily lecture if you had some kind of formal qualifications. A while after that idea was planted my daughter started school, and I suddenly had some more time. So, I thought, oh well I'd go do that then. I'll give it a try and went down to the university to see what the reaction was, because I haven't had any musical training as such really. They offered me the place, and they've offered me some part time teaching as well. So, it's worked out pretty well.

IN: What do you teach?

R: Software and tutorials on using it creatively really. The software I'm teaching is Cubase. [laughter] It's not my favourite software! Cubase and Sound Forge. I use Sound Forge all the time. There's two camps of people and I'm definitely in the Logic camp!

IN: I've used Acid & I have your Loops for Acid, but that's really as far as I know about music software. So, you don't use Acid yourself?

R: I do use it occasionally mostly just to bounce things down. Just to get them into the same time and tempo and everything. Just to mix a few things together so they're all the right length. The main kind of sequencing and audio software I use is Logic. It was Andrew Diey of Black Faction who put me onto Logic. I have to admit that after I first tried it, I didn't work with anything else after that. It did everything I wanted it to do and more.

IN: More so than just doing it raw with a four track?

R: Yeah, well that's kind of the background I came from. You know, analogue four tracks... lots of them usually all into an analogue desk... not synced.... There was usually a lot of live mixing. You just used them to get more tracks. You'd start them when you thought it was the right time rather than have them synced up together. Working through stuff laboriously. I try to work quite quickly because I feel that you can overwork things and knock the life out of them really. At the moment I'm supposed to do some assignments at the university, in a more modern studio. And I just find it [to be] not the kind of way I work at all. It's just a matter of getting the assignments out of the way, really. They're too slow. It's not a very intuitive way to work!

IN: Have you heard any music that has used any of the Loops you made for Acid?

R: No. I don't think I have, no. There was a good documentary kind of series [on TV] about the sort of migration of man around the globe. The theme tune to that was a sampled bit of :zoviet*france:! It was a completely unmistakable sound. With the combination of microphone and live recordings, you couldn't really reproduce that kind of sound without all the same pieces of equipment. That's the only thing I've ever heard like that on TV or anything.

IN: I take it they didn't get permission or anything like that.

R: No.

IN: Now you said your daughter just started school. That's not university, is it?

R: No, no. That's just primary school. She just had her fifth birthday party today. She's got an older brother who's 11.

IN: So, you said you have more time now to work on things like the MA?

R: Yeah, well. My wife works full time. She's got the job that pays the mortgage and everything. So, I look after the kids. My wife is doing a second degree... she's trying to get a law degree now. So, we're both studying at the moment. The plan is to get better paid and then work less! That's everybody's plan, really; to do less hours work for more money. The going back to the university thing was to get more regular money for me as well. It's pretty good pay if you can get part-time teaching. You don't have to put loads of hours in. Plus I enjoy it as well. It's been really good in a lot of ways. All the other students have been really good to meet them and see what they're doing. I think about what I'm doing in a different way as well.

IN: Do you let your son play with your equipment?

R: Yeah.

IN: And is it good?

R: Yeah, I think it's kind of like... well you know children's paintings are sort of uninhibited and things. It came out in a similar way when playing music. They just play the way it feels without worrying about hang-ups or without feeling that they're doing something wrong or in the wrong way, you know. Just to see what will happen. Trying things out and see what will happen and then responding to that. So, yeah, he was really into it for a while, but he doesn't do it anymore. My daughter spends more time up in the attic now. She keeps telling me to turn my stuff down so she can play her keyboard!

IN: What sort of music do your children listen to?

R: Well... my son likes Nickelback at the moment, but I don't really know who they are. They both like watching old

archive stuff. There's a program that's on 4 or 5 nights a week that would be like old Top of the Pops from the 60's onwards. They prefer that to the kind of contemporary chart stuff which is pretty bland anyway. They get more of a laugh out of the old stuff and seem to like it more.

IN: On Rhiz there's a sample that sounds very much like a sample from a Bollywood singer. Like Indian pop music?

R: Yeah.

IN: Are you a fan of Indian pop music and Bollywood?

R: Yeah. Not necessarily. Well, in a way, I kind of like the kitsch-ness of Bollywood. There was a good Sunday morning program that was on when Jacob was little and we kind of had to do morning shifts of feeding and such. There was an early morning slot because it was minority appeal I suppose which was all things Asian. And they used to stick on a Bollywood movie. I quite often would watch that because there wasn't much else on at half past four in the morning, you know. I'm not a huge fan, but somebody gave me that tape that I took the samples off of. Someone gave me that in 91. I only recently rediscovered where it was! I was going through boxes of stuff looking for things and found that one. I put it on and thought there were good samples to be found on it. I think a lot of

[Bollywood] is kind of cheesy, but the singing's great. The voices are brilliant.

IN: You sometimes use Indian instruments too, like a Tabla.

R: Yeah, I've got some tablas, a sitar and things and a flute. Most of the time I do my own ethnic sounding things. Rather then ploughing through [records] to find samples, I'll just play what it is that I want to hear anyway and then

treat it as if it was just a sample. It's good fun as well.

IN: Besides Indian you use African drums as well, right?

R: Yeah, I've got a fair collection of things. Many have just been given [to me] actually. The kids love it, you know! It's like a third world store or something!

IN: To get back briefly to Rhiz... how long have you been interested in trance?

R: It's been around for a while. I've been infusing a bit here or there over the years. The way that [Rhiz] came about was I was invited to go to Vienna to do a gig. And at the time, I didn't feel like I wanted to do a gig. In a

way, I still feel like I need to find another way playing with other people, rather than just trying to do it all myself. And so [when] I said that I didn't really want to do a gig, Walter from Klanggalerie said come and just do some DJing and it would be good to see you. I had never really thought about that before so I said Yeah, great. But, then afterwards I was like What am I going to do? because it wasn't very long away. So, I just started messing about with things. Just started doing my own stuff. Went and did a DJ set that went really well. Walter was kind of surprised that most of the stuff I was playing was mine. So, I did the album after that which is basically based around that DJ set.

IN: Were a lot of people dancing?

R: No, it's not really like dance music, but it's kind of eh... well, I don't know... I've been thinking about it but I haven't really been going down to like dancing kind of music. It's club music, but not dance music. You don't sit down and listen to it if you know what I mean. I've been into trance/dance for a long time. The Rhiz one is the only one so far that I've kind of left in it without tampering too much. I've left it in a kind of identifiable genre slot without messing around with and making it more experimental. But, that took a lot of effort to do that! Dismantling things is what I really like doing. I like the ethnic stuff and I like playing it. But, what I like doing more is messing around with it afterwards. Taking it somewhere else. Rhiz was experimental in a way for me! Forcing myself to just do [trance].

IN: I read an interview with the late Bryn Jones of Muslimgauze where he said that his music may not have been political, but the making of it was a political act or statement. I was wondering if you felt that the use of samples or something like that was something political within Rapoon?

R: There kind of is. Sometimes it's all on one level. Thinking of The Kirghiz Light in particular sort of a statement against new age-y kind of stuff.

IN: Really?

R: Yeah, that was a bit of a reaction to that kind of stuff... the kind of idealization of tribal nations and things, like because something was ethnic it was necessarily good or beneficial. Ignoring any kind of realities like wars, fighting and hunger and disease and death are all part of everybody's life. It's not just all dolphin squawking! It wasn't the reason I did it, but I was thinking about it as I was doing it. The way I started with... is kind of like punk although it has nothing to do with punk rock apart from the fact that you've got a right to do what you want. You don't necessarily have to fall in line with the music business. Yeah, I don't mind if anyone uses my [music] if they want to do something else with it. If you're talking about plagiarizing something and saying its yours that's a different kettle of fish. But as far as nicking something, I don't have any kind of scruples about [sampling]!

IN: It sounds like at times like you're sampling self-hypnosis tapes on albums like Navigating By Colour.

R: Yeah

IN: Could that also be seen as a kind of anti-new age kind of thing?

R: They're usually there for a purpose. I have a kind of sympathy as well for people who are looking for something. It's what people are satisfied with that interests me. Why are they satisfied with that? Or do they just keep looking? I can't identify with people who have found an answer with religious or philosophical things. Oh, that's all right, I don't have to look any more.

IN: Unless of course the answer is the guy from the alien question! He seemed to be goading people to look into what he was talking about in a way.

R: Yeah, that was kind of like make your own mind up. I thought he had a great way of delivering. It was very

hypnotic and musical. It wasn't really difficult to put my music around [it]. I didn't want to completely destroy what he was saying whether I agreed with it or not. I thought it was interesting enough to lead to a full album. As far as using it, 3 or 4 different copies of lectures given by that guy and he's got a different name in all of them. So, I credited the alien ambassador on the album! If he wants to come for his money, I'll be very surprised! But, he's welcome to his share of the royalties!

IN: What Do You Suppose? is one of my favourite.

R: I enjoyed doing that one a lot. I hadn't listened to the tape when I put the music together. It's all chronological.

I didn't know what he was going to say next either!

IN: You've done so many albums. Do you have a favourite?

R: I don't know. It's usually the one I'm working on at the moment. Sometimes, if enough time's gone by and I happen to hear it again, I'm quite pleasantly surprised that I still like it. Usually after they're finished and it's released, it's very rare that I would listen to them again. That's just because I'm working on something else. I like that one Cold War as well.

IN: What do you have coming out next?

R: There's one I just finished. For various reasons, it's taken the longest of anyone so far to do. Part of the reason wasn't creatively, it was the data got screwed up. So, I had to go back to reassemble it and you never do it the same way again. I've just got to put it in the post and send it off to Soleilmoon.

IN: Which one is that?

R: I Am a Foreigner. Which includes some teach yourself a foreign language [samples].

IN: What language?

R: Italian. So, it's a very useful [album] as well! The [tape] I've got seems dated in a way. It's Teach Yourself Italian, but the English responses seem a bit colonial! [laughter] The attitudes are a bit, well, Don't these people speak English? or What do I want to learn this for? The way the guy says, Can you tell me where this street is, I'm a foreigner. It's pretty hilarious. There's also a live [album] due to come out on Klanggalerie as well.

IN: Do you do tours at all, or do you just do one-off sort of gigs?

R: Yeah, I mainly just do one-offs because of the kids. It's such a hassle trying to fix up alternative childcare. Plus, I don't really like leaving them very much or for very long. I haven't gone yet, but I'm already missing them!

IN: Any plans to come to the US again?

R: Yeah, well I would like to. I'd like to do [a] living room tour! I do some life drawing. I belong to this sort of art club where we do life drawings in the evening. There's a friend I know through that who was very surprised when he found out that I did [Rapoon]. He also belonged to this, actually it was kind of a joke, this club of people he'd known for a long time where they'd listen to records. They'd all get together at somebody's house and listen to records and talked about them. He said he was always trying to get them to try something that was a bit more ambitious than just country and western or folk music. And that was it, they wouldn't deviate from those things. He asked me how I did my stuff. So I said Come around some time and I'll show you. And he said, You wouldn't show these lot as

well, would you? So, I just took a load of gear over to his house and set it up, and this lot had no idea! They were just coming by to drink beer and listen to whatever records my friend were playing that time. It was a good

experiment. There were about 12, 15 people in a living room! They got a live gig! Even the country & western ones were like Well, that's not the kind of stuff I listen to, but I was really interested! I did kind of fancy the idea. I actually thought that a great thing to do would be a living room tour! I'd make my way over there, get myself a bunch of addresses and then go play in a bunch of living rooms! That'd be great.

IN: You're welcome to play here! I've got a large living room!

R: Seriously, I think it would be a good idea. It's just completely different. People's expectations are just completely different. It's more intimate as well. You kind of play in a different way, and listen in a different way.

IN: The place you played in Chicago last time, Lounge Ax, has since closed down, so it's just as well that you should play in my living room!

R: I enjoyed playing that place last time.

IN: It unfortunately fell victim to gentrification of the neighbourhood. People built condos around the club, and then started complaining that the club was making too much noise! That happens more often then I'd like to admit in my city!

R: I went to go see one of the bands of one my students, and it's been a while since I went to this area that used to be dockland area. Now it's all fancy apartments. I was surprised that they've actually made new venues there, but I don't know how long they will last. They're pretty swanky and well attended as well. In :zoviet*france: we used to have a rehearsal room by the quayside and we had this vast suite of rooms for next to no money with holes in the roof where pigeons would come in. Now it's frighteningly expensive. There are at least a quarter of a million pound apartments. I think you could've paid a year's rent and got change back from ten quid when we used it! It was a real seedy dive.

IN: That's in Newcastle?

R: Yeah. The whole riverside is like that. All the riverside that's in the town is all very expensive apartments and

restaurants.

IN: Is Newcastle where Get Carter was filmed?

R: Yeah.

IN: So where that great riverside chase scene is all apartments now?

R: Yeah. There's 3 or 4 streets are set back from the river that are still like [Get Carter]. There's hardly any shipbuilding. There's one shipbuilder left at the very end. I preferred it all gritty and rough.

interview by Rick Kinney

Industrial Nation